UPDATE: Both notcanada.com and notcanada.net have been shut down.
NotCanada.com | The Truth About Immigration To Canada.
This website bills itself as “providing the truth about immigration to Canada.” But who are they really?
Their “About” page describes them as follows [typos and all, but with emphasis removed]:
NotCanada.com is run by a team of former Canadian citizens, who have now permanently left Canada and are happily living and working abroad.
The goals of NotCanada.com are:
1. Inform the world about the TRUTH about Canada.
2. Expose the lies and deceit of the Canadian Embassies around the world.
3. Expose the money hungry tactics of the Canadian Immigration lawyers.
4. Explain the true motives behind the Canadian Governments immigration policies.
5. Help you – the potential immigrant to Canada – make a complete and accurate informed decision about wether or not you should immigrate to Canada.
It is, of course, entirely possible that this is a legitimate site, created as it says by former immigrants to Canada who want to help – warn off, really – others who might be considering migrating there. But the fact that this site is linked to by a number of conservative Canadian anti-immigration bloggers and websites raises questions about its true nature and purpose: could it be a bit of disinformation, covertly operated by right-wing Canadians to scare off potential immigrants?
As much as this might seem like a bit of paranoid conspiracy-mongering, it is a possibility that has clearly occurred to others – including the creators of the site, as they refute this idea in their FAQ, as well as addressing any charge of racism that might be leveled against them. But while they explicitly encourage readers of their FAQ to research their credentials, they don’t provide any contact information of any kind to facilitate such inquiries. If they are genuine – and sincere in their suggestion that we look into their bona fides – why do they provide no identifying information or even direct contact info?
The FAQ page contains a number of statements that raise doubts about the legitimacy of the site. In one place, the people behind NotCanada.com state that they “have lived in Canada for well over twenty years,” but a bit later say they say they have permanently left Canada. Also peculiar and suspicious is the fact that in rejecting any charge of racism, the people responsible for NotCanada.com don’t say anything about their own identities, though elsewhere there are suggestions that they are originally from Asia. And they write “We certainly don’t want to ‘keep foreigners out of Canada'” – which again does not seem to be a statement that would be made by former immigrants no longer living in Canada.
It’s possible – particularly given the numerous errors and generally poor writing of the site – that these suspicious statements are all just the result of bad writing. Without the site creators coming clean about who they are, it is impossible to know.
There are other oddities to the site, as well. For instance, despite its complaints about immigration lawyers taking advantage of people wanting to move to Canada, it lists prominently at the top of its main page links to two different commercial immigration firms. One of these firms assists people migrating to the USA. The other – “Global Visas” – provides services for people wishing to migrate to any of a number of countries – mostly former British possessions, like the USA, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and… Canada. One possible explanation is that they want to encourage people to emigrate somewhere other than Canada, but this seems a bit flimsy compared to their supposed anger over the misleading practices of immigration lawyers helping people come to Canada. Well, actually, I think that explanation is correct in one respect – they do want to encourage people to go somewhere other than Canada.
The main content of the site mostly seems to be whatever was written back when it was created, apparently in 2005, without any attempts being made to fix bad links or clear up the numerous typos and other errors. But the site is not moribund; it is being regularly updated with links to recent news articles and so on. And the “OFFICIAL NotCanada.com FORUM” appears to be quite active – the main discussion forum shows almost 3000 posts, right up to the present, on over 200 topics.
A check of the registration (WHOIS) information for the domain name notcanada.com shows it to be registered to a dummy/front company, Domains By Proxy, Inc. of Scottsdale, Arizona; their numerical IP address (64.202.163.156) likewise traces back to there. This is by no means proof of shadiness, but the use of this company – whose marketing emphasizes its ability to shield the true identity of domain owners – certainly raises questions. Indeed, so many shady operations try to fly under the radar using their services that Domains By Proxy provides special links on its home page for law enforcement and people with subpoenas.
When you look at the overall picture – the murky and contradictory statements in the FAQ, the shonkiness of the website with its errors and bad links, the propagandist graphics of workers with advanced degrees being forced to take McJobs, the lack of any information on the identities of the people behind the site, its popularity with right-wing foes of immigration, the intentional hiding of their identities in the domain registration – one really has to wonder.
If any of you are mad skilled in things internet and have some time on your hands, perhaps you might considered trying to track down more info. In particular, there are a bunch of posts on other sites – even positive sites on Canadian immigration like Loon Lounge – telling people to check out NotCanada.com. Tracing the identities or IP addresses of people making these posts (perhaps with the help of administrators on those sites), and also those posting to the NotCanada.com forum, might be revealing. If the site is bogus, and being run by some naughty right wing anti-immigration (and racist) Canadians, I suspect that the same IP addresses but bearing different names will show up repeatedly – in NotCanada.com forum posts and in posts about NotCanada.com elsewhere – and that posts by persons apparently affiliated with NotCanada will trace back to IP addresses located not overseas, where the NotCanada people claim to be, but in Canada.
UPDATE: This is what you get for hammering something out in a hurry. NotCanada.com has a “partner site” at NotCanada.net, which consists mostly of the same material, but it’s somewhat slicker and more professionally put together. Like the original site, NotCanada.net is devoid of any genuine identifying information, and the domain name is again registered through an organisation specializing in hiding the identities of domain owners, in this case Domain Privacy Group, Inc. This company is located in the Toronto area, which raises further doubts about the legitimacy of the NotCanada sites – if they are really the product of people no longer living in Canada, why are they using a Toronto area company to hide their identities?
FURTHER UPDATE: I have written a follow-up to this post.
the bad days will end 
I read a lot of the posts on Canada.com forum.It is strange that even though the posters have different names,the language and writing style seem to be from the same author.I also tried to register on the forum to post my views and have been denied access(their reason is too much spam).I also noticed anyone posting “success” stories aabout immigrating to Canada was responded to with a tirade of insults and accussations of being a liar.I also do not like the racism used by numerous posters on forum referring to “pale faced Canadians” and other comments saying all Canadians are “stupid rednecks” etc etc.Also did some reasearch on the ads on this site potraying a doctor driving a cab.This ad campaign originated in Dubai and its purpose was to shed light on foreign born proffessionals in Dubai doing menial low skill low pay jobs.The site was started originally by a Canadian born man who’s parents immigrated from India.He planned on going to med school,but his grades were not good enough to get into any Canadian(or American) university.He was only accepted at a third world school.When he graduated and returned to Canada,he was unable to start practicing medicine(third world med degrees are not recognized).He also didnt pass the Canadian exam to practice medicine.That is when he created the site.
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what have been said and written in notcanada.com is 90 % true , I myself is an immigrant , and I’m facing a lot of difficulties and obstacles mainly because I have an accent, I can’t describe how much it is difficult to find a job in Canada for immigrant even the menial one , I used to have a prosperous job in the gulf, now I envy a teenage worker in the mall , because the only job that I found so far is working in the factory , I have no problem to work in the factories if I didn’t have a severe pain in my back which avoid me from standing too long
I know thousands of stories about immigrant’s breakdown, bankruptcy, even suicide attempts, and what have been mentioned in the notcanda is just a fraction of the whole picture
Some facts: 80 % of all the labor workers are form minority (mostly Chinese and Indian), I’m wondering where did all the white people go?! , I worked in a candy factory in Oakville and I was shocked when I found out that the only white person among 50 or 60 workers is a teenager supervisor
Oh .. one more thing ..I’m white!!
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More useful information about this site:
There was an ad on Vancouver Craigslist about notcanada.com
I noted that the site purports to be written *by immigrants, for immigrants* about the poor working conditions here… encouraging them to go elsewhere. I too was suspicious of the fact that although the site claims that all of its authors are former immigrants to Canada and that all of them have left Canada for fairer countries, not one of them cares to reveals their true identity or contact information. It made me wonder too: is there some hidden agenda here?
I found out more by digging a little further into this site. Under ‘news’, you’ll see a link to a book review… lauding a book by Mike Taylor (of Coquitlam, B.C.!) which talks about the ‘immigration problem’ not from the point of view of immigrants experiencing real hardship in Canada — which is undeniably a problem for many, but from the point of view of a former ‘Canadian immigration investigator’ who “notes that Whites ultimately ‘will not go willingly into that racial slaughterhouse’ that the New World Order has built.” The authors of this website appear to endorse the reviewer’s view that Taylor is “a fine Canadian patriot and defender of our Western Civilization” who is “courageous enough to point out that Whites are endangered as a race”.
So, what is that “racial slaughterhouse”? You guessed it… according to the author, the reviewer, and presumably the authors of notcanada.com which features it: Canada’s immigration policies. Who are the real authors of this site? I’d guess: “endangered… Whites” [their capital W, not mine].
DOES ANYONE ELSE HERE SMELL RACISM, CLOAKED IN APPARENT CONCERN FOR IMMIGRANTS?
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mw, you´re just a liar, I have no relationship with the Notcanada.com owners but I have no problem at all positing my comments on the site when and wherever I want. There´re many canadians posting insulting messages on the immigrants, I dont see why not the immigrants doing the same.
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notcanada provided a valuable service to me. When I migrated to Canada, I could not understand why, with all of my qualifications, masters, years of professional experience etc, I could not even get an interview for a job after 2 years of trying.
I simply could not understand what was going on. notcanada cleared it up fro me. When I read the horror stories of other migrants before me, I finally understood the wall that I throwing myself against and decided to be smart about my situation.
I moved to the US and got a job in 5 months. Something I did not get in 2 years of trying in Toronto. So as far as I am concerned, notcanada saved me a lot of pain and hard personal lessons. I recommend the site to anyone who talks to me about migrating to Canada. In several instances people have refused to come based on their research on Canada staring with notcanada and one friend who would not listen and had to find out the hard way, left after 18 months of being unemployed here. (I warned her against letting all her money run out and having to go on welfare).
So whatever reasons you ascribe to the website owners, the fact is, they are providing a valuable service to new immigrants to Canada who may be ignorant of the real dynamic going on in the country.
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You are a fraud. I commented here and you refused to publish my comment…. fine. But notcanada.com has a following whether you like it or not. And they do tell immigrants’ stories, whether you like it or not. Thank God they don’t need your permission to exist.
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NotCanada.com has revealed the real face of Immigration to Canada as I a experienced myself. I’m not a member of ocanada site but I am 200% in agree with them.
Do not try to criticise the truth…
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well…… after reading all these conversations i think the only genuine person who is not a spam is “zerode”……. dont mind you all weird named aliens but even a common man could tell by reading all these conversations that who z fake and who z not…….. so guys just chill out……
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Hello there,
i’m Osama from Egypt (what else you need a identity ?!) Lol
i watched a video on Notcanada.com before it was down and it was their immigration minister speaking , i’m not supporting notcanada.com here but i can find that either they are shutting immigrants out of their homeland Canada or if they r honest about the stories and they r not canadians , i can find it reasonable and i asked people i know who lived in Canada before and they got M.Sc in medicine and worked in casual jobs (restaurant , delivery,,,,etc) they confirmed what notcanada was saying (high taxes , racism,no jobs !!!!!)
so thanks God i’m not in Canada (with all respect to Canadians ) !
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notcanada.com and.net have been forced out , surely not by immigrants.
You can now see for yourself who’s hiding what.
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Check this out ya habibiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
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I’m having a hard time understanding why you are puzzled that the creators of notcanada are hiding their true identities. They are attacking an immigration system of Canada. No admin of that site will be stupid enough to leave identity information. And it doesn’t matter if the site is run by what you call anti immigration blogger or something. It just provides information for people thinking of migrating to Canada. A person should not make decisions based on notcanada alone. A smart person would verify the accuracy of the “contents” of the site through additional research, not the character of the “creators”.
In my experience, I considered applying as a skilled worker in Canada. It was my wife’s dream of going there since she has uncles, aunts, cousins already living there. My brother told me to visit notcanada.com and so I did. I was surprised and did not want to believe what I saw. My wife and I thought of what type of jobs her relatives and our friends do there. We realized none of them do white collar jobs. Her relatives do gardening, house cleaning, building window cleaning, care giving. I’m an IT professional specializing in Java. I don’t mind going back a few steps, but not so so far back. Even if I will have no problem getting the job I want, when I see a taxi driver there who is a surgeon in his own country, I will be crushed and demoralized. I wouldn’t want to stay in that kind of place. Maybe Caucasians will not have the discrimination that the video shows (check notcanada in youtube).
I’m now a holder of Australian PR visa. A big difference is, in the Canadian system, you must show them lots of money (10,000+CAD depending on number of family members) before qualifying, as a proof that you can support your family. Maybe they are indeed expecting you to find a hard time finding work, and be on welfare in a few months. How’s that for confidence booster 🙂 In the Australian system, you must pass the skills assessment, as a proof that you really have the skills that you are declaring to have.
When my friends tell me that they have plans of migrating to Canada, I show them the notcanada video and tell them to do more research. I do my own research sometime to find out if the Canadian immigration system has improved. I don’t stop or discourage them. Sometimes I suggest finding an employer first. Everyone has the right to have lots of information before making that life changing decision. To each his/her own.
I’m from the Philippines by the way, just to save your time on whois/IP tracking.
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not canada is true i have posted my bad and good experiences in caanada, im still in canda and waiting for a good opportunity to move to the US, been here for 6 years im successful in canada but still not enough. you may email me at publicindividual@gmail.com
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zero,
as far as i know this place is not fair to us professional immigrants, i will tell some of my details im ang engineer passed the Alberta National Professional practice exams last 4 yrs ago, and still cant get licensure here to practice solely, instead these engineering associations required me two write UF FE Fundamentals engineering exams and i will do that in Calgary this april. I did work hard here but so many bad things happened to me discrimination in the workplace, get laid of and fired for simple reason i dont talk too much, communication problem, im a silent guy and prefer to be on my own, once i have some opportunities in uS good bye canada.
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zero,
i do as a matter of fact i told my friends back home and check notcanada website and told them all my expereinces here, and they withdrew their immigration application. for me it is too late my kids are born here, i did bought a house and so on, im a prisoner here.
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im from asia too. i do agree my life was better there even i worked as an engineer here in almost my employment in canada.
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zero,
ive been in that Loonlounge, still not a good site, they arent telling the truth, the truth should be exposed, that simple.
I cant lie whats going on here specially to my friends.
Ontario you say, huh, I have friends with very good expereince as an engineer from Dubai and in Ontario,they been there working as a factory worker for 3 years now, he emailed me everyday and very miserable, i even helped him find jobs there, pointing out some engineering recreuitment firms who wanted to hire me there as a bridge engineer, instead the response they got from them, you dont have canadian experience we cant hire you, this is unfair. They dont give him a chance and how can he get canadian experience?
Huh, you cant understand the first generation “PROFESSIONAL IMMIGRANTS”, you havent experienced it, so you dont have a good point of view.
I worked with so many stupid educated and uneducated Canadians here, it doesnt matter if i have Masters and bachelors degrees in engineering, they seem to act as if they are more intellegent than I do. sometimes i do correct them, but most of the time i keep quiet and later on if they fail on something i tell them the reason why.
I did teach kids mathematics high school and college calculus, a lot of canadian people are not good most of them arent interested at all, i have noticed immigrant kids are better.
All my expectations in canada are all short. Im sorry i said this and I have come to this place.
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another thing since you have mentioned that you have siblings born here.
I have 2 boys born in calgary, and they went to school pre school, canadian education not good at all, my kids dont know how to write and read, now, i sent them back home with my wife and they are there for half a year now, they improved acamedically so much as what my wife said, they learn how to read and write that short time.
Another thing about health care, my boys here in canada, i cant get them pediatrician here in canada, and my eldest son, he do need a therapist in canad, but i cant find a decent good one, so i sent them back home, now my boys got therapist and pediatricians.
so you think canada is so good.
i paid so much taxes here working as an engineer and freaking i cant get good health service.
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I just came to Canada from the US, and my experience so far has been completely negative. I highly concur with notcanada.com
First off, let me try to explain why I wanted to immigrate to Canada. First, I thought that Canada was a rich and civilized country, and since it was close to the US, it was somehow comparable to the US. Second, the Canadian government’s propaganda has always been painting Canada in a shiny tone, misleading immigrants into believing that they will have a good future in Canada. Finally, it’s easy to apply for immigration to Canada if you have some work experiences.
Now, what have I seen so far ?
– Jobs in Canada are very hard to find. I am in the IT field, and I have submitted my resume to various places and I have received no response so far.
– Things are expensive in Canada. I live in Toronto, and housing is like twice more expensive compared to where I live in the US (Columbus, OH). Most Canadians I talk to suggest me to compare Toronto to New York or LA. Let me tell you this you Canucks: There are numerous medium-sized cities in the US where jobs are easy to find, and the cost of living is low. You don’t need to live in New York to find a job. In Canada, once you get out of big cities like Toronto or Van Couver, the chance of finding jobs is virtually zero.
Car insurance is so expensive. Having lived in the US, I am accustomed to having 2 cars. Here, it’s considerd as a luxury. The car insurance premium is 5-10 times more expensive than in the US.
– Tax is here craxy. They extort your hard earned cash in every way they can. Income tax, sales tax, property tax are crazily high. Yesterday, I read an article on a newspaper saying that Canadians have to pay 41% of their income for tax. That’s just insane.
– Life in Canada is just miserable, even for the Canadians. Salaries are low, and things are expensive. So, even if you are making 60-80K per
year (very high according to the Canadians I talked to), you don’t have much left after taxes, morgages, car insurance, food, etc. You just have to work hard for your whole life. BTW, only in Canada that I’ve heard of 35 or 40 year mortgage. Why ? because people have very low income, I guess.
– I have talked to many people (from Europe, Asia, etc.). They told me that they used to have good jobs in their countries, but now, they end of being real-estate agents, factory workers, deliverers, etc. Why don’t they come back ? 1) Self esteem. They don’t want to show the people home that they failed in Canada, 2) They are also hoping for some magics to help themselves.
That leads to the question: why Canada (Toronto and Vancouver in particular) is rated as one of the “best places to live in” ? I don’t know. My theory is that the survey is done on a large body of immigrants, esp. those from Africa. Compared to Africa, life must be slightly better here.
Oh yeah, let me finish off by saying that many Canadians that I talked to ask me for a legal way to come and work in the US and stay there permanently. I guess that speaks for itself. Even the Canadians know that things are better in the States.
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Hurray for Thomas!!!!!!!!!!
Quickly: I lived for 5 years in Canada. Had 3 interviews. 1 for a Company I worked for 4 years. Ended up being another fraud-bubbly-bail-me-out type of thing. Got a job in a major US firm in Canada (only trough colleagues I had from the first one). During the 4 first year had no interviews, not even email, and I sent a resume ever month.
So, in my 2nd job, I revamped business in my division, so the americans noticed signs of a good market and pushed me away. I left, went back to Argentina…. where I was born. Oh boy I suffered, I was sooooooooo used to Canada. I loved it there. But here I got a job in my field. And in average I get one offer per email every month (without an interview).
Oh by the way, I am german. Just born in Argentina (german parents) and I must agree that notcanada.com , even if it was a hoax, the contents were just facts.
Cheerio!
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notcanada.com was more than 100% true and position is pretty much same or even worse in Canada. The CIC and Govt of Canada are like ripping people’s life. Let me ask all of you-
-How many successful immigrants you have heared of in Canada?
-Why is it that even Canadian born talented russell peters (depite of after changing bloody Indian names of whole family, adopting christianity) was looking for US Visa and finally begging for US green Card? I can’t even imagione that a born canadian citizen with finest language skills will seek US visa like a bastard immigrant from third world country?
-While in Canada russell peters was working at shoe store, dish washing what does that mean?
-System is designed in such a discriminatory way that keeping immigrant down to his knee and in poverty line till decades by these methods:
-Concealing white collar job market and refering job to other whites and hiring them.
-Not recognizing immigrant’s qualifications
-If came to Canada with top qualifications such as Doctor, Engineer then under the name of equivalency haressing them or asking to do residency, internship, Canadian credits, Canadian experience etc simply to keeping them below poverty level.
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Hi Zerode! you better try it yourself! go to Canada and find a job there so you could find out if they are telling the truth or not about your beloved Canada….Don’t waste your time arguing with others of the things you really do not know and experience yourself…..Hurry up…Go there and try to live there….
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Back in 18th and 19th century when US laws were designed especially to keep Blacks limited till farms and slavery, Canadian system effects an newly arrived immigrant in same manner.
-You can’t get custommer service job because you have an accent
-You can’t use your degrees, diplomas because they aren’t Canadian
-You can’t look for a job in your career field because experience is not Canadian.
I was shocked after talking with one Canadian Govt official on phone that just because you are a prospective immigrant, they will treat your qualifications, experience as a trash.
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Simple words:
Canada is a hell for professionals, and a paradise for ignorants.
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An important note that immigrants to Canada should know is that MANY people against immigration are NOT against immigrants themselves
Immigration is bad for Canada for 2 major reasons. Firstly, it is at levelss higher than any other country in the world, nearly 1% of the population per year, and includes primarily people from countries with vastly different cultures than the mainstream. As a result, mainstream communities are being overwhelmed culturally. While people such as Zerode here love this, MANY people do not because they feel their own communties become overwhelmed by foreigners. Please, if you really respect Canada, don’t come here at this time. We like and respect you, but now is a time to respect the needs of mainstream Canada’s culture too. The second problem with Canada’s massive immigration — the highest in the world, as I mentioned — is that the population is expanding and harming the environment. Contrary to popular belief, Canada’s environment has been suffering the effects of indusrialization and population growth for hundreds of years. The problem has become exponentially worse in recent decades and because of the two together — population growth and consumerism — over 500 species are now at risk. Indeed, the population of southern Ontario recenlty passed the point of being able to feed itself, and water supplies outside Toronto are projected to be short in a few years. These are the facts.
Immigrants — I love you, most of you are great people — but please respect us and stay away for a generation or two.
Thank you,
Many say it is bad for the economy too, but that is harder to substantiate than the two reasons I explained here.
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Zerode: May I ask where you born here? There is something particularly heinous about a foreigner coming to my country and telling me that my culture ought to submit to them and their brethern. I have talked to such so-called “immmigrants” before. Words cannot describe the hatred that I have for such vile people. If there are any such foreigners reading this blog I have one message for you — go straight to hell! If you are humble and respectful, then I will respect you.
But on another note, you raise a good question. Which “mainstream communities” you ask? Here is a hint: ANY community that is established that does not WISH to be enculturated or overwhelmed by people from others countries. Simple enough? That includes Aboriginal, French, and English, including all people enculturated into these communities of any background. But, it also includes established Chinese communties and any other ethnic group. Of most concern to me, are the communities that I have lived in and love. The thought that these communities will be overhwhelmed as Brampton has been sickens me. That there is a significant number of people, probably mostly in the GTA and Vancouver, who think this is just peachy is disgusting. Total disregard for other cultures, people, and Canadians. We all know it was wrong to the First Nations, but we accept it for the English and French. We accept that other countries have policies of assimilation, but Canada must be “multiculteral”. Question the double standard.
And, what do you mean a certain segment of the English speaking population wants to freeze this “process” which you imply is so inevitable?? As though 150 years of established communities must inevitably bow to foreigners???? Do you feel Aboriginal communities ought to give up their culture and assimilate into the larger society?? You feel English and French communities must bow and change for foreigners just because you are comfortable yourself? Sick. Self serving. Manifestly wrong when considered deeply. ALL cultures deserve respect, majority and minority.
By the way, what you call inevitable is entirely a CHOICE. Canada’s immigration levels tripled in 1990 in response to the Conservative Party courting the vote of immigrant groups at the time which Liberals claimed as their base. Sine 1990, Canada has maintained the highest immigration levels in the world per capita — 250,000/a– which is double that of the USA, and abandoned the previous policy in 125 years of Canadian history of tap on/off depending on needs. What we are seeing in the GTA, Montreal, and Vancouver is unprecedented in Canadian history. Check stats Can. Check ImmigrationWatch.com
You are absolutely right on the environment question: mainstream Canadian society, mostly European, has lead in the industrialization and environmental destruction of vast regions of what we call Canada. I have spend much of my life trying to protect endangered species from being destroyed. But THAT doesn’t mean that mainstream cultures, for lack of a better term, have no right to exist. Hundreds of these communities have ethnic and cultural identities that established over generations. And if you think the environmental regulations and control in Canada are lower than Indian and China where nearly all immigrants come from, just check the facts. Not room to provide links here, but go on, check the state of the environment in those two countries…
The idea of reducing Canada’s carbon footprint while brings in the 3.9 million projected new immigrants into southern Ontario by 2031 — nearly doubling the population — is obviously not going to work. Man, no one who really cares about he environment support population growth, from immigration or internal procreation. No one who cares about other species advocates population growth abroad or internally. I mean, no one. Case closed. And yeah, people from India and China will obviously use far more energy and far more resources living a Canadian lifestyle. Obviously, resources will be saved if they stay home. And let me get this straight, first these countries develop grossly obsorbatent populations, numbering in the billions, then we Canadians are expected to pick up the pieces by allowing our country to swell too? Give me a break.
And by the way, before you pull the race card (I can hear you salivating already) — I’m not white jerk. I’m mixed race, and have no shame in either my English or Lillooet Aboriginal heritage.
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Zerode,
No, my situation is not one of economic troubles. My situation is one where I moved from a traditional Canadian town to the GTA. I have lived all across Canada at different times, worked a variety of jobs blue collar and professional, earned several graduate degrees, and travelled somewhat outside of Canada. I have always been very liberal in mindset, open to people from various cultures, backgrounds, and languages….I have always been very pro-diversity and pro-immigration. In fact, I still am — within limits!
That’s my background — do you have the confidence to explain yours?
What changed my mind was moving to the Greater Toronto Area. While I love the cultural diversity of the place, and have always promoted these values in my personal life, I have been astounded by the ignorance of many of the people here, including foreigners and Canadian-born ideologues. There is an ideology of political correctness among many here who trumpet “diversity” as though it is superior to “homogeniety”. What they REALLY mean is that Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver are superior to the north, the East, the prairiers, and central BC. And, that there is something morally wrong with “white” communities. And, that somehow without the mass importation of non-traditional cultures into Canada, the country remains a culteral wasteland. And, more personally, that Toronto is somehow superior to the hometown that I grew up in because it is more culterally and racially “diverse.” So, who are the racists to say something is “wrong” with “white” or other “non-diverse” communities?
It is those beliefs, assumptions, and ideologies that feed my anger, Zerode.
So now you know why I am angry. What remains is for you to look into the multiculteral ideology and see it for what it is – ideology that is not superior but rather an option, a choice, as in everwhere else in the world.
In your last past you introduced again the idea of process, as though the ethnic and culteral change that Canada is now going through is somehow an inevitable outgrowth of its history. To this I must respond, with all due respect, did you even read my earlier post?? Evidently not, so I will repeat myself. It will be good for the readers of this blog to be reminded.
In 1990 Canada’s immigration policy underwent a fundamental shift unseen since 1867 — in case you don’t know, that is the year Canada was founded. The numbers of immigrants coming into Canada nearly tripled from previous levels and this increase was sustained consistantly for 20 years and continues now. Where previously the UK was the primary source of immigrations (and at earlier times other European countries) in 1990 the source shifted to southeast asia. That was a major shift. Memorize that. From Europe to Asia. Big change. Not inevitable. All at once. Politically motivated. So the top source countries shifted from European ones to India, China, the Phillipines, and Pakistan.
Why did this shift occurr? That is PRECISELY the question the public needs to ask.
Thus, Canada is not on a course consistant with its past, but rather, a totally brand new course. It obviously has been leaving the Aboriginal period for over a centry. Now we are witness a kind of recolonization, a repeat of the displacement of Aboriginal people, that is taking the country radically away from its traditional European roots towards an Asian identity. And guess what? I was born in Canada, and nobody asked me if I wanted this change. And nobody asked the 25-30 million other Canadians either, because the change is NOT public knowledge and has NOT been debated.
Zerode, how self-serving it is for you to call the ethnic transformation of Canada “inevitable”. How much that must work in your favour. Why is always those who are not English, French, or Aboriginal culturally who make such claims? Let us face the truth: politically motivated “immigrant” right groups — or should I say foreigners — have been lobbying the Canadian governments for decades to open the gates so that more people come from their home countries, giving them more power within the confederation. The liberals and conservatives, always competing for power, placate these groups, knowing that not doing so would be called “racist” by the activist immigrant groups and politically correct ideologues unsophisticated enought to parse and analyse the many dimensions of the immigraiton issue. The CBC and other media outlets actively promote the ethnic and cultural transformation of the country, never addressing that there are cultures here already that are being displaced by the radical extreme immigration of the past 2 decades. It is essence, an effort by special interest groups, activist professors, politicians, developers, and corporations such as RBC who force unprecedented and mass immigration upon the rest of the population. Inevitable? That’s what you say, becuase it is in your interests to say it. That is exactly what the English said to the Aboriginal populations in the East, the Prairies, and the West: change is inevatable, give up your land, adopt our ways, it is futile to resist. But the Native people then, just like Canadians today, had agency, choice, and rights. And I think that choice will be exercised, sooner or later. The goal must be to open immigration to Europe and the UK not just 90% Asia. It should also be reduced to about 50,000 per year, the same number that leave, to protect what environment we have remaining. There is no clear benefit of population growth at all, and we all know that it degrades the environment and the habitats of other species, in my view the single most important problem of our country and the world.
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I can’t comment about the details of anyone’s stories except my own, but I can offer a happy story to balance out a lot of the sad/frustrated ones.
I’m a physician (anesthetist/anesthesiologist) who initially moved to Canada because I wanted to work in a health care system that used the British model for my specialty. That was for two reasons: first, I prefer administering anesthetics as opposed to supervising nurse anesthetists. Nothing against nurse anesthetists; that model works fine in the USA. It’s just that I prefer the British system for myself. Second, there is a lot more respect for anesthetists in the British/Canadian system, where we are regarded as being equal to surgeons, as opposed to the American system, where we are more often than not expected to function in a subservient role and meekly do the surgeon’s bidding.
I researched Canada carefully before I decided to emigrate. I knew about the high income and sales tax rates, the lower income for physicians, and the relatively high cost of living. I also knew that I would be taking a big hit professionally. I went from being on the faculty of a large urban teaching hospital in Columbus, Ohio (where one of the previous posters hails from) to working in a village hospital with 3 OR’s in an underserved region. Basically, I had to take a job no specialty-certified Canadian anesthetist would touch to get my foot in the door.
I spent the first four years in Canada on a “defined” (second-class) medical license sponsored by my employer. I had some frustrations; it took me two years to wiggle my way into a job where I could get the help I needed to write my Canadian specialty exams. The first time I attempted to write the exams, I failed. It was humiliating. But I kept trying, and ultimately succeeded.
I will admit that I didn’t start from scratch. I made certain that I had a job in my field arranged before I arrived, that there was some sort of equivalency for at least some of my credentials, and that I would be eligible for some kind of license in my profession before I set foot in Canada. I also made sure I had plenty of cash to buffer myself during my adjustment period. I anticipated the need to re-establish credit. I didn’t buy a house right away after arriving; I was on a temporary work permit, and recognized my vulnerability and the possibility I could fail. I got advice from Canadians I knew in the USA, in and out of Medicine. I came to Canada with my eyes wide open.
I think if someone educates him/herself about the issues of immigrating and keeps a humble attitude, a lot of frustrations can be avoided. You have to have a really good, positive reason to want to move to a place to offset the challenges. For me, it was greater professional dignity and a chance to live in a beautiful, reasonably well-governed place full of wonderful, friendly, laid-back people (the Maritimes). I’ve really enjoyed it. Was it a great financial move? No. Is there a Morton’s steakhouse in my community, or a high-end shopping mall? No. Do I have a BMW? No. Do I live in a mansion? No.
Instead of a large city, I live in a town of 40,000 in one of Canada’s poorest provinces (PEI). I am happier, work more reasonable hours, love my patient population, don’t have to constantly fear getting sued, don’t have to deal with the large proportion of American surgeons who are pompous and rude, and have a lot more security in my life (physical, professional, and social safety net-related). I also have been able to put the drama of politics in the USA behind me and get on with living, loving, and working like a normal human being.
Have I had troubles? Yes!
Do I miss the USA? I do. I’ll always love the United States, and will never forget the wonderful things that country gave me (including a great education).
Would I ever go back to the Columbus? (Laugh, laugh, laugh) HELL NO!!! I do not miss Fox News, underwater mortgages, and 90-hour work weeks! I am thankful to be off the warp-speed treadmill that is American Medicine. I find events there surreal and the political developments (Tea Party, etc.) perverse.
If some Canadians like to live in the U.S., that’s fine. We’ve all got to find the place where we’re happy. To each his own. But I’m a lot better off in Canada than I was in the States.
I’m also proud that I came alone to a new place, where I had no connections and no family, and made it. Nobody here knows anything about my medical school or residency, or cares about the fact that I trained at an institution considered a “prestige” university in the USA. They just wanted to know I was safe and not lazy or greedy!
You’ve gotta know what you want in life, and find the country that delivers it. And you’ve gotta be ready to pay the price. If you aren’t, you shouldn’t leave your country of birth.
I’m not the only one. I’ve met physicians from all over the world who have succeeded in Canada after immigrating. Eastern Europeans, Brits, Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese people, Africans, etc. Most of them had to re-take their exams. Some had to repeat their training. But, they all had a positive, can-do attitude and some humility. If you approach your life in a new country that way instead of being bitter that you have to jump through a few more hoops than the home-town crowd, it goes a lot better for you.
Thanks, and good luck to all.
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You’re welcome.
Your theory may be right, although I’ve also heard a rumor (no proof, just hearsay) that notcanada.com was the brainchild of a Canadian-born child of immigrants who didn’t pack the gear to get into his/her chosen professional school in Canada. S/he was promptly shipped off by his/her rich Daddy to a developing-world diploma mill in the “old country.” Upon returning and discovering that s/he had a worthless degree and that the Canadian professional regulatory authorities wouldn’t quickly cave on the matter, s/he became embittered and started lashing out at Canada. I don’t know if that’s true, but it would explain a lot of the anonymous bitterness on that site.
I engaged in some banter with some of the embittered, defeated souls posting behind pseudonyms on notcanada.com, and explained that I was satisfied with my immigration experience. They responded by mocking me, claiming that I was lying, saying I must not REALLY be working at the attending level in my field, etc. They said that because I was from another English-speaking country and had arranged employment when I arrived, I wasn’t a credible example of an immigration success. I was amused–immigration is something that should be carefully and strategically approached! Doing a good job of preparing and researching your destination is hardly something to be ridiculed for. Of course I chose a country whose language I already spoke! It made things a lot easier for me!
Anybody foolish enough to show up without arranged employment or a good knowledge of English or French, all the while expecting a lucrative job, a health card and an easy time of it, deserves a few stern lectures from the “University of Life.” Luckily, Canada is well-equipped to deliver such lessons to the lazy or “entitled.”
Many, many immigrants do very well in Canada, thank you very much. If you’re honest, hardworking, humble, and willing to make some sacrifices, it’s a great place to live, work, and raise a family. If that description doesn’t apply, stay where you are!
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Zerode,
I can’t help but notice how easily you dismiss all of the concerns I raised and continue to expound your philisophy of “globalized nation” (cultural eradication?) being set up in Canada as an “invetiable process”. At least you acknowledged you are a foreginer, not Canadian.
I have to agree with your attack on NotCanada.com. I’m sure it was a faulty site, whether by immigrants or non-immigrants.
However, to dismiss the cultural integrity of Canada as you do is the language of colonialism. To build a better world, we must learn to respect the identies of Canadians and people of ALL countries. When you use fear and intimidation to stifle expression of that identity, you threaten to turn Canada into the next France. Not what we need.
Canada needs a reduction in immigration levels so that new Canadians, regardless of race, ethnicity, or religon, have the time to be made into Canadians and their children and grand-children can grow up being loyal to Canada first and foremost. Otherwise, we will continue to develop into a fractured, divided, and regional country.
Whatever your intetions, you promote the fragmentation and division of my country.
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Two website that promote information and education without the fear and intimidation used by extremists interested in ethnically changing Canada.
http://www.immigrationwatchcanada.org/
http://www.immigrationreform.ca/index_new.shtml
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“The only cultural that might be considered “authentically” Canadian is that of the various First Nations / indigenous peoples – and already there one is dealing with (1) multiple cultures and (2) cultures that are the heritage of migration, albeit in prehistory, from Asia.”
This is completely irrational. The 500+ First Nations were not “Canadians” at all and had not identity as such. They identified — and many still do — by triable, house, village, and family afficoliation. There was no pan-North Amercian aboriginal organizations until the early 1900s when the organizations such as the Assembly of First Nations were started.
But to sugggest that the 5 to 15 generations of English, French, and other Canadians are not “authentic” is totally arrogant and disrespectful of the people who were born here. And what of the thousands of Chinese Canadians who have been here since the 1800s. Are they not “authentically” Canadian? Here’s a hint Zerode: people born in Canada are CANADIAN. If you aren’t, it takes a hell of a lot more than a passport, it takes LOYALTY to Canada first. Something you obviously do not have.
It’s about BOUNDARIES. A woman in an abusive relationship has the right to assert boundaries. A country has the right to assert boundaries. And we Canadians have every right to determine who comes into our country, who stays, and who leaves, by whatever criteria we so choose. People like you who want to use fear and intimidation to deny us that right are sick, and have no concept of boundaries or respect.
It strikes me, reading your note, how ubiquitous you like to be. Why don’t you reveal your own nationality? You Sir, have no right to tell me I am not authentically Canadian for any reason whatsoever. Your right to determine the nationality or identity of another group is entirely outside of your rights. Again, you speak the language of colonialism, attempting to define the identity of others to suit your own needs. Again, this is quite sick.
Perhap you have family in four countries and you consider yourself a citizen of none. That says to me that you have no loyalty, no home. And you wish to deny others the right to have their home, to assert their rights, to assert their boundaries. Perhaps you are satisfied to live your life in a kind of limbo, an idealistic “citizen of the world”. That is all fine and good. But to tell me that I am not Canadian, with your limited knowledge of the country, is below contemptable.
For you to manipulate, to use First Nations in your petty scheme to ‘Multi-culteralize” Canada is nothing less than another attempt at historical revision. First Nations are NOT just another culture (or group of cultures). They were the FIRST here, both before Canada was defined and afterwards. Afterwards came the French, then the English. That is why those cultures define Canada today primarily. People of all races belong to each of these cultures.
You are correct about one thing. “Multi-culteralism” was a part of Canada from the beginning. There were not one but three founding peoples: Aboriginal; French; and English. The vast majority of immigrants in the 20th century blended into these three cultures.
However, what is new, is that since 1990 the vast majority of immigrants are from non-traditional countries including India, Pakistan, and the Phillipines. Some of these people integrate very well. Unfortunatley, many — thinking just like you– try to import their culture into our country. Also new is that the rate of emigration is 3 times previous levels sustained for the longest time every. This is not a “process” as you say, but a choice. We have agency. We have control. As with every country, every people, that is our right and power.
What you don’t want to acknowledge is the process of assimilation. Have you ever met a second generation immigrant? Perhaps you don’t have a home of your own, but perhaps you have learned in your “anthropological” travels from someone else’s immigrants? They are not, dear Zerode, particularly “multi-cultural”. They are often barely distinguishable from their countries culture. Within 2 or 3 more generations, people tend to be quite well integrated by 2 processes; language and education. The question remains as to whether enough of the high levels of immigrants from non-traditional countries — should the pattern continue — blend into to their new home or over time attempt to change it to suit their own needs and agenda. Hopefully we don’t end up like the European countries.
I didn’t put those sites there to convince you — I know there is no doing that. It would take a serious life event to help you understand this issue better. I put the sites there to bring awareness to some of the viewers. There are so many issues and assumptions with the wiki site I won’t start here.
The questions you ask at the end are reasonable but I’m out of room.
With respect
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I accept your apology. Remember that you are decidedly NOT Canadian and it is my country we are talking about here. While you do have the legal right her on cyberspace to say whatever you want, you do not have the moral right to do so. This is my home, not yours. So you should tread far more lightly than you do. For you, this issue is not personal because it is not your country. For me, I can assure you, this is far more than a mere intellectual excercise. I live it every day.
Obvouisly there are far too many issues here to respond to at any one time. Anyway, the point about there being no “non-immigrant” identity is one pretty much impossible to establish. First Nations themselves ultimately immigrated as well, in several waves, over about 10,000 years from what we now call northern Russia. Russians and Asians themselves immigrated from what we call central Africa, an area around the old Congo. To abitrarily say that Aboriginal (brown) people are somehow NON-immigrants while English and French (white) people ARE immigrants suggests a very dubvious agenda and double standard. If you don’t want to accept that people born in a country are NOT immigrants — the international standard — and that those who move to another country ARE immigrants, then what is your criteria? A history of 5-15 generations of English and French establishment over 150-500 years is insufficent to establish as a non-immigrant? It seems to me that deep down your criteria for immigrant is colour, race. Dark people, aboriginal people are not immigrants; white people who came later are. . . . .
California eh? Well, I’ve been to San Francisco several times and of course south to LA and San Diego as well. An amazing place with incredible diversity of people and a lot of technology. Destroyed vast areas of the environment though and the economy is obviously unsustainable, just like most everywhere else. However, some parts will remain nice for some time to come.
But to answer your question, YES, I do identify as CANADIAN. Even with respect to parts of the country I have not visited, although I have seen most regions. I know you mistrust nationalism, as though responsibile for wars, etc. Actually, I do as well, in so far as it is created and propogandized in many ways. Tribal loyalties to small groups of less than 150 people are probably stronger than national pride. It is true. But having said that, national identity is worth dying for when there is ethnic bonding, unity of purpose, and common values, such as what we have historically had to quite an extent. Several of my ancestors went to war for this counry. But that national unity is becoming threatened now, because the newcomers are not properly integrated and while many are great and proper too many do not put Canada first. Take your approach, for example, of advocating for an inevitable “process” of massive cultural change that will force Canadians to change for people with no real ties, no connection, no investment, and no true deep loyalty to Canada who live in countries half way around the world. Some newcomers think exactly the same way, which is divisive, and actually quite colonial.
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Let me just brielfy add that I do ultimately respect your right to identify as affiliated with people in your immediate area of California. I am saying that we Canadians also have that right to identify how we choose, and do so entirley on our own terms as a people. The First Nations within Canada, I think you will agree, are the only group who maintain the right to define their membership legally within the confedration, because of their historic establishment as nations before Canada was created.
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you two stop arguing about work experience. canada is better than the philippines specially to those filipinos who are intellectually challenge. we’ll be there in canada and do any kind of job that white people don’t want to do. we don’t care if we work as nanny, driver, dishwasher or any job that white people don’t like. even if the weather is frigid cold, we just wear lots of clothes to offset the cold weather. someday filipinos will be the majority in canada because we breed like rats. look at our population, even dirt poor filipinos has 3 children and more. just count how many filipinos will be born after 20 years. someday filipinos will be the prime minister of canada and quebec will speak Ilocano (a dialect). you will be overwhelmed by people from the philippines and you will adapt our culture and ways. In the future canada will be called canapines. ok ba…
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Why does canada shut down websites that portray it negatively. Isn’t that what china and iran do? Canada with its hate speech, government censorship. What a scary fascist nation.
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